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We'd love to hear from you, drop us a text! A promise to honour a father’s memory became a cookbook that rallied a whole barbecue community. We sit down with John Wilson to trace the gritty, very human path from “let’s do a book” to holding a 204‑page charity cookbook that climbed Amazon’s barbecue charts and put first‑time contributors next to big names. John walks us through the real barriers no one talks about: post‑pandemic print costs that quadrupled, the tough decision to abandon a tra...
We'd love to hear from you, drop us a text!
A promise to honour a father’s memory became a cookbook that rallied a whole barbecue community. We sit down with John Wilson to trace the gritty, very human path from “let’s do a book” to holding a 204‑page charity cookbook that climbed Amazon’s barbecue charts and put first‑time contributors next to big names.
John walks us through the real barriers no one talks about: post‑pandemic print costs that quadrupled, the tough decision to abandon a traditional print run, and the steep learning curve of Amazon KDP. He shares how AI became a practical assistant for formatting recipes consistently, while the painstaking work of proofreading, indexing and layout stayed stubbornly manual. Proof copies exposed mismatched fonts and an off‑by‑one index that demanded days of fixes. Hitting publish brought 72 anxious hours, then a wave of support as cooks opened the book and found their recipes on the page.
There is heart at every turn. We unpack the legal care required when naming charities and using logos, the slim KDP margins that still make the project worthwhile, and the moments that made it all land—like a young contributor presenting his printed recipe at school and earning an award. John also reveals a bold plan for volume two: a global live‑fire collection with curated regional dishes, a “Live Fire Legends” chapter, and a smarter submission flow to avoid duplicate recipes while encouraging cooks to stretch beyond their comfort zones.
Along the way, we talk sold‑out charity events, festival demos, and a playful barbecue bingo segment that lands on sweet chilli halloumi. If you care about cookbooks, community and the craft of getting ideas into people’s hands, this story will light a fire. Grab the cookbook via the links in our Instagram bios, cook a recipe, and tell us what you make. If this conversation resonates, subscribe, leave a quick review, and share it with a friend who loves live fire as much as you do.
AOS Kitchens are a leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists based in Hampshire
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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For all of our other episodes you can listen or watch them on our website.
00:00 - Welcome Back And Big News
01:01 - Why The Cookbook Began
04:10 - Costs Spike And Plans Collapse
07:15 - Discovering KDP And Reformatting Chaos
10:25 - AI As An Unlikely Editing Partner
13:30 - Proof Copies, Errors And Fixes
17:20 - Going Live And Early Reactions
20:25 - Charity Rules And Legal Hurdles
23:10 - Community Pride And Personal Moments
26:05 - Sponsor Message: Outdoor Kitchens
27:15 - Health Setback And New Projects
29:10 - Volume Two: Global Live-Fire Concept
32:10 - Live Fire Legends And Timeline
35:00 - Iterating Design And Layout
37:05 - Momentum, Strategy And Submissions
39:10 - Barbecue Bingo: Recipe Spin
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Today's episode is brought to you by iOS Kitchen, the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialist.
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Welcome to another episode of the Meet and Greek Barbecue Podcast.
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So today we have got John Wilson back on the podcast.
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We last spoke to him in 2023.
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He's just finished the barbecue community cookbook.
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So that's what we're going to be talking about today.
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Without much further ado, here's John.
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So, John, welcome back to the podcast.
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I was having a quick look, and the last time that you were with us was April 2023, so nearly three years ago.
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How have you been?
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Yeah, very well, very busy, uh, as uh you can imagine.
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But uh yeah, I can't believe it was three years ago.
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So it's uh time applies.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Well, we're super excited to have you back.
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Obviously, there's been a real buzz over the last week or so um about the barbecue community cookbook.
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I've got my copy here.
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Uh, very excited.
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Uh there you have that.
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We've done our promotional bit now.
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Um, so obviously, of course, we wanted to get you back.
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We you know, we briefly spoke about it way back in 2023.
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Talk about what's happened since then, because uh obviously it's now here, it's now a product.
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Yes, uh so back in 2023, uh I decided or we we decided to uh to put a cookbook together.
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Uh it was basically me and my sister, just around that sort of time, uh, we unfortunately lost my dad to cancer, and uh we wanted to do something for his memory and plus to raise money for charities.
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So we decided on a cookbook uh and we had I had a chat with Paul from Flames Barbecue uh about it because I I was on the Sizzle Show because I had this massive fascination about cookbooks.
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Uh Cork from Sizzle Show interviewed me.
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Uh lots of messages, bring your own book out.
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Paul from Flames Barbecue got in touch.
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He said, Why don't you do it?
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I mean, to be honest, I'm from a construction background.
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My uh obviously, there's not many people go around editing and uh doing cookbooks and books of any sort of ilk, but uh that's what it was.
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So we decided to put it all together.
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I got a few people together.
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There was uh Tom from Smoke Face Grilla, he jumped on board.
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There was Lee uh Smoke and Seer, he was on board, uh, and also my sister.
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So we got it all together.
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Uh, that the little team of us, uh Lee very kindly with his website uh at Smoke and Seer, opened that up for people to download recipes.
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We got all that sorted out.
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It took me, I think, a good year to get recipes in.
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The bit I didn't think about was how many duplicate recipes I would have.
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And then I made the thing saying was don't worry about it.
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If you've submitted a recipe, I'll include you in the book.
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I didn't realise that I was gonna get like six mac and cheeses and things like that, but I'd already made a promise, so it was difficult really to put all these recipes into separate chapters.
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Uh I didn't quite think about it in the right sort of way because you say to everybody, right, send me a recipe, I can put it in a book.
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What I should have said was, if send me so many starters, uh, main meals, bits and pieces, have a little bit more thought about it and a bit more structure around it.
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But yeah, we we got there in the end, uh, and we ended up with a hundred recipes, I think there was.
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I got it all edited, got it into various chapters, and the big thing was that me and my sister were actually going to fund this to self-publish it.
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So it was just after COVID.
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We had some prices for say a thousand copies, I think it was, and it was somewhere between five and six thousand pounds.
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Can't quite remember exact figures.
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And after a year, a nearly a year and a half of us trying to put this together, costs just I think nearly quadrupled.
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Yeah, paper went through the roof, didn't it?
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The cost of paper.
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Publishers we were back then, so we know exactly what you're talking about.
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It went from probably between five and six grand to I think nearly fifteen thousand for a thousand copies.
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So we had to make the decision of how do we do this now?
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Yeah, it basically the finances were sky high, and unfortunately, I had to make the decision of thank you all very much, but unfortunately, I ain't gonna be able to do this.
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Uh, I didn't have a clue on editing, publishing.
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My computer skills were absolutely zero.
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Uh, my English was terrible, I was thrown out of school in the last year, so I didn't have much of a clue of what to do.
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Then some people started saying, Oh, go down the K KDP route, which is uh Amazon's publishing side of things, uh which is basically free, but you have to put it all together yourself.
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Uh and that is probably two years after I started, maybe a bit more, maybe two and a half years.
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I looked at the KDP route and had a little look at it and I thought, I can't do this.
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I just haven't got a clue of how to put a book together.
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You can ask loads of people about it, but you've actually got to physically sit there, generate all these recipes.
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Obviously, the recipes that were coming in, everybody done it on a Word document, but everybody's recipe was slightly different formatted.
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Yeah, so I had to reformat everything so everything was looked the same, which when you've got no computer skills, it got very, very difficult.
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But the good thing of it is, and I'm not a great believer of uh the AI, but actually I copied and pasted one of the recipes.
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I was only just messing around one night, and I copied and pasted one of the recipes, put it into AI, asked it to format it into a KDP format recipe, did it and it spat it back out.
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I thought, well, this could work.
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So then I tried it on another one and it came back right again.
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So I had a bit of a gist of what to do.
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So once I'd got the template set up for the size of the book, I just spent month after month with every recipe formatting it into the KDP format template and just work my way through 204 pages.
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A labour of love, John.
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It's it was I'm one of these that if I start doing something, I want to finish it.
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And I it was quite upsetting, obviously, with the personal uh thing regarding the book, yeah, and plus me having a big mouth and telling everybody don't worry about it, you know, get a recipe in a book.
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Uh, but yeah, we I did it and it's all out now, which was a massive, massive uh probably the biggest achievement I've probably done, considering six months ago I'd never even done anything like this at all.
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I mean, I've learnt how to use a computer, I know how to edit, I know how to publish, and this, but yeah, we're raising money for charity.
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Unfortunately, going through the KDP route is financially, you don't make a lot of money out of it because obviously Amazon takes a big chunk of it.
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I mean, to print the cost to print one of these books, I think I've put it out, it was about £16.39p.
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Uh, then Amazon tech another cut on top of that, so it came out the break-even figure for Amazon was £27, so many pence.
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They would not let me put that up for sale any less than that, because that is the break-even figure.
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Yeah, so to sell it at £30, unfortunately, I only make £1.61p for the charities, but it is what it is.
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I've got it out there, and one of the other big reasons was uh with my passion for cookbooks, is I wanted to give people a chance.
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I mean, this barbecue community, uh, there is a few people who obviously have the books published, and Genevieve Taylor and uh and Marcus Bowden and people like that, they can all they they'll get their books done.
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But 90% of the people on this barbecue community never would have the opportunity to have a recipe into a cookbook, and that was another big thing I wanted to do.
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And uh, like this weekend, seeing people's faces when they've got the book and they're opening it up and they see their recipe in print, that was special.
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That was really, really special, and it meant a lot.
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So, yeah, I've achieved what I wanted to do, and uh yeah, it's all worked out, and it's been a great couple of weeks.
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Thank you.
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It's uh it has it's surprising because I was quite anxious before it got put out there because I didn't know.
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I mean, I thought it was okay, don't get me wrong.
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Yeah, I thought, yeah, it's good, it it looks like one of my cookbooks or similar to a cookbook I've got at home.
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Yeah, but how is everybody else gonna look at it?
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You know, I I don't know, you know, but people are gonna pick it up.
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Is it gonna be what they expected?
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Are the recipe layouts gonna be right?
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Uh so I was a little bit anxious, but yeah, the response from everybody has been absolutely fantastic.
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So well, who are like uh so vulnerable putting something out there like that?
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And the achievement of getting it out there after everything that happened, John, is like amazing.
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But I completely understand that fear of what will people think when they actually see it, you know, and because we are all of our own biggest critics, right?
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But I I understand what you're saying about the feeling when you see other people get hold of it and their reactions, but how did it feel getting your copy?
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The first one that came through.
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That must have been a big moment for you.
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Well, this one I've got here, there's only two of these copies because there's me and my sister got these copies.
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It now these are proof copies.
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Yeah, so I'd gone through on laptops with my sister, and we'd gone through it over Christmas because I wanted to get it out before prior to Christmas, but there was just too much editing to do to get it all right.
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So we went through it all on a laptop, uh, me and my sister for a couple of days solid, just hours and hours and hours going through it all making sure it was right, bada blah blah.
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And I also just very quickly had uh Laura from the Hodgkiss family uh just prior to Christmas.
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I wanted somebody to proofread it, and I was talking to Adam, uh future husband, and uh we were on about it, and I asked her if she'd like to or if she wouldn't mind if she could proofread it for me, and and she did.
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So she came back with some bits that needed editing.
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So I I sort of did those bits, and then me and my sister sat over Christmas editing it all, and I thought that's it, we're sorted, you know.
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So I pressed the button on KDP, uploaded it all up.
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It took me uh Steve Stark, uh Steve Stark designed, he he designed the cover for us and and the and the back, but I couldn't get it to fit in the KDP template, and there was loads of bits, and finally we got it all into one to fit into the template.
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I thought this looks perfect.
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Press the button, it uploaded onto their website, and it said, right, now you can have a proof copy.
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So, right, we'll get two proof copies.
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I'll get one, and my sister will get one.
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So I get one and I'm flicking through it.
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I thought, well, that doesn't look too bad.
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And then there was one recipe, it was from uh Matt Burgess at Matt Black.
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Yeah, and as I turned the page over, I thought that font size doesn't look the same as the other ones, and the font size on most of the pages is font size 12.
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When I turned it back, as I folded both the pages over, Matt's recipe was in 11.
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So that was the first problem, and then we started flicking through it and flicking through it, and I was so despondent.
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Oh, it was the must have I just didn't see it.
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I think I just got that blinded by it all, and I just wanted to get it out there and get it out there, and I sort of went through oh, the other thing was as well they when I looked at these pages, I thought because obviously I've got to set an index up on it.
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Now to set the index was really difficult because I kept going back to right, uh say brisket under B page 11, and that was it.
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But what had happened was when we were editing it originally, it knocked everything out of sync, and it's the only thing I didn't check, and it wouldn't be so bad if it was one of the recipes towards the end of the book, but it wasn't, it was one of the first ones, and it just knocked everything out of sync just by one page.
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Some pages it fell right, depending on where it was in the book.
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But yeah, we we ended up with uh two, three days going through the proof, editing it all, back onto the laptop again, making sure the sister read her version, I read my version, we went through it all again and again and again, and yeah, we finally got it right.
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So then I had to press the button for it to go up on sale, and that was a bit nerve-wracking because I pressed it and it says oh, within 72 hours this will be live, and I pressed it on the Saturday, so I thought Sunday, it said between 24 and 74, 72 hours.
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So I press the button, Sunday morning, nothing, Monday morning, nothing.
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So then I'll start again a bit anxious, and I'm thinking, what's happened?
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Have I done something wrong?
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So I'm emailing Amazon, they're just replying me back saying it takes 72 hours.
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Then on the Tuesday, it dropped, and and that's that's when it came out.
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So I had to quickly do some sort of uh video and story thing just to say that it would uh I mean there's been a lot of there's been a lot of social media, I've seen lots of people excited with their copies.
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Oh yeah.
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Um, so I'm I'm hoping that kind of anxiousness has kind of melted away now, just yeah, yeah.
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I I don't usually get too anxious about stuff.
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It was just that when people are paying money, if if it was for free, yeah, I I wouldn't probably feel but when people are spending £30, especially this time of year, for a book, and I'm thinking, is it right?
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:49.039
But yeah, once it got out there and uh people, I mean, yeah, the response has been well, I I I just I'm blown away by it to be honest.
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It it was quite an emotional few days, to be honest.
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It was uh it was good, and uh there was some lovely comments, and and plus I've done a dedication at the front for my dad and and things like that.
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So yeah, it it was it is rather special.
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:12.559
It's uh I think it it's like a it's like you know, like you have like a community village pub where everyone's involved, and yeah, everyone, you know, and I think I think that's the beauty of the book, isn't it?
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Even uh I appreciate that worry, but people wanted to be part of it and happy to purchase it because that's part with their part of the community, yeah.
00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:29.519
Uh, and obviously charity is that's it, it's is the added bonus, right?
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:39.120
That it that it is there to help other people, and obviously, ultimately, that's the core goodness of a of a of the barber community, isn't it?
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It's it's yeah, it's the thing is though, I I didn't realise uh when we started doing this that there's so many rules and regulations about mentioning said charities.
00:16:51.279 --> 00:17:12.720
Uh Macmillan Cancer and Young Minds Mental Health Charities are the two charities, but I couldn't actually use their logos in the book, and I couldn't mention them in a way of all the proceeds are going to the said charities.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.119
I had to go down the legal side of things.
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I had to look fortunate.
00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:23.519
My brother-in-law has uh a big company in Hulland, and he has an on-tap uh solicitor, a lawyer.
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:31.680
So I just quickly asked them what, and they went through it all and they said you've got to be so so careful about what you can and can't do.
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:37.039
I'd messaged Macmillan Cancer and Young Minds, and they were under the same thing.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.119
It's brilliant what you're doing, but please don't do this, that, and the other.
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:47.279
And it it's there is some parts of the book where I actually did mention them, and I thought, well, what were they gonna do?
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:52.880
But yeah, it was it was a difficult thing.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:54.160
I just didn't realise.
00:17:54.160 --> 00:18:08.720
Uh, and when I spoke to somebody at Macmillan Cancer, there was they were saying nowadays it's such a strict thing because people were saying we're gonna raise money for charity and then disappearing off to the Cayman Islands with a suitcase full of money, and and that is the problem.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:28.480
But no, it it's it's been brilliant to be honest, and it it's uh it's nice that everybody the biggest thing is is when you see people open the book, like I said earlier, and and you see people with the recipes and and things like that, it's uh it does make you think, yeah, that is somewhat special, it's something that not everybody gets to do.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.960
So I'm very fortunate, really, to be able to do this.
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:40.160
And uh the barbecue community, uh people like yourselves and everybody else who's supported it and and submitted recipes and things like that.
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.720
It's uh it's for everybody, really.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.559
I'm just a person who compiled it all and came up with a silly idea.
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.200
You're the person who invented it, yeah, and invented it.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:59.279
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00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:11.920
The other thing that I imagine must have felt strange is all the time that you got back after finishing it, because it's a real passion piece, right?
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:18.640
A labor of love that you've done for years and years and years, and all of a sudden that time is back.
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.720
You're already looking at kind of what's next?
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:23.839
Are you cooking more?
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:24.720
What is it?
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:38.960
No, uh, well, I've unfortunately I was in hospital last year, so uh uh with uh a gallstone problem, which is sort of an infection that's spreading through various organs.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:44.319
And I was in hospital for about a week and I've been on a low-fat diet ever since.
00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:55.599
So I I mean I've lost about three and a half stone in weight, and uh it's but my cooking really hasn't it has suffered quite a bit really.
00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:11.359
So I I I'm eating loads of chicken, but uh yes, once I was over and done with, and I got to a certain stage with a cookbook where I was just waiting around, I did start another one.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.200
Oh you started another one, yes.
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.319
So there is going to be a volume two.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:19.920
Oh, awesome.
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:28.319
So and then I started once I started one, I thought, what other ideas could I have to keep it community-based?
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:34.079
So I have got another, I've got volume two, volume three, and volume four.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:38.480
So it's they're all totally, totally different.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:50.880
I mean, don't get me wrong, these are gonna be coming out in the next uh if I can do one a year, I think I've worked it out that if I start volume two now, I should be able to do it by this time next year.
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:51.599
Yeah.
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:53.279
Now I'm on a roll, you see.
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.599
I've got the template, I know what to do, etc.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.279
It's just if I go down the KDP route again.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:21:59.759
Um
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:13.119
Is the other thing unless there's some kind of publisher out there wants to come and help me and if we just at and tag every single publisher as we work most episodes.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:26.000
It's the thing is though, I have looked at this and and somebody did say that once you've got one out and you've made a decent go of it, you have a good bit better chance of trying to find somebody to come out and publish it.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.400
I don't I don't know how these things work, but uh yeah, so volume two.
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:40.720
So volume two is I can tell you a little bit about volume two, so it's going to be very similar to the concepts we have with the original one.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:45.519
This is going to be global recipes.
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:50.000
So I've picked different regions from around the world.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:23:03.279
So you've got like Australia, Australia, South Asia, uh, Central America, Southern America, uh, Mediterranean, Europe, all these sort of places.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:15.200
Now, what I've had to do this time is I've picked out recipes or dishes, should I say, from each of these places, and we've got eight, or I've got eight in each chapter.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:26.480
And to make things slightly easier for myself, and also I don't get duplicate recipes, is that I will be releasing so many chapters at a time.
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:37.200
People then see the uh dishes, they can choose a dish they want to do, put their own spin on it, send it all back to me, I'll edit it and put it in the book.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.160
Nice.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.839
That is my way of thinking of how to do it.
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.920
The other thing I've thought about is this like there's a lot of dishes here.
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:53.440
Yes, there's that there's like the American uh chapter, which has your briskets, your pulled porks, things like that.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:58.880
But then I've got sort of dishes from Korea, uh, China, Japan.
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:12.319
There are dishes that people probably don't cook every day, which then I'm thinking that's going to give somebody an opportunity just to push the boundaries a little bit, gives them a bit of an opportunity to cook something slightly different that they wouldn't do before, uh, and things like that.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:18.559
So, yes, uh there's I think nine chapters I think I've got.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:31.839
So there's all them sort of different regions, and I do have a special chapter, which is called Live Fire Legends, if I've got that right.
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:52.079
I might change the word in the like slightly bit, but I have got at the moment five, maybe six what I would call pretty big big fire live fire legends who are willing to submit recipes.
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.599
Uh, so and these are from all around the world, so right.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:01.759
I I've spent quite a bit of time uh talking to people and messaging people and that.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:05.279
So, yeah, I've that that is uh volume two.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:13.680
So uh I'll be releasing this probably in the next two to three weeks and get people on board, depending on how it goes.
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:21.519
Uh and if people are into the concept, I sort of did put something out just before Christmas asking the question, and I got quite a good response.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.759
Yeah, it'd be a good idea, this that and the other.
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:28.319
If nobody comes back to me, I'm gonna be sat here cooking all the dishes and doing all that stuff.
00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:31.359
I don't for a second think that's gonna be the case, John.
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:33.279
No, no, but you never know though, do you?
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.920
I mean, it it's it's it I don't know if it works, it works.
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:38.799
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.759
I did think this about the first one, and that sort of worked outright.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.160
So, but yeah, that is uh volume two.
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:45.519
It's gonna be slightly different.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:49.599
I mean, uh, as you know, with the volume one, we've got a directory.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:53.920
You can't really do that with a global cookbook.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:03.599
Yeah, uh there is obviously in the original one there's the uh about your meat uh and bits and pieces like that.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:18.880
Yeah, so but yeah, it it's as it's worked in volume two, it it is I'm really excited by it, uh, because I think the layout for the volume one is quite basic.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.720
It's pretty simple, yeah, easy.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:28.480
You pick it up, you read, and it's sort of pretty easy to sort of follow.
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:49.680
What I try to do with volume two is uh is make it a little bit more professional, uh the the layouts of things is slightly different, and uh I've sort of scoured a lot of cookbooks of my own and sort of picked out little bits and pieces of how their layout is to what mine is.
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.240
It's just learning care, and that was the thing is uh of working it out.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.319
But yeah, that's uh that's what I'm in with.
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